EPISODE 72: Let’s Talk Sales Copy: How to Design a High-Performing Conversion Copy Plan

Jessi:
Welcome to the Brand Your Voice Podcast, where we’re digging into how you can create personality-driven content that connects and converts. I’m Jessi…

Marie:
…and I’m Marie. We’re the co-founders of North Star Messaging + Strategy, where we support business owners in outsourcing content without sacrificing authenticity.

Jessi:
Every brand has a unique voice that sets it apart. We're digging into how to capture the way your brand communicates from the words you use to the stories you tell. So you can create more compelling content that strategically helps you meet your business goals.

Marie:
And if you choose to outsource that content, you'll be able to do so with confidence, knowing your brand voice is in good hands and you can reclaim your time. We're so glad you're here and hope you enjoy this episode.

Jessi:
All right, welcome back everyone. We are here today to talk about sales copy specifically, we're gonna talk about how to design a high performing conversion copy plan on a board scale. So we're not gonna get into the itty bitty nitty gritty specifics of a specific launch plan, because as we'll talk about in a minute, they can be very different based on different audience types, products and services being offered, all of... there are a whole bunch of different things to consider when creating a very specific conversion copy plan. But we wanna start by talking about it more broadly, what it is, why you as a writer are very well equipped to provide some strategic advice around the strategy for conversion copy and how you can think about it at a high level before you start getting into the nitty gritty details of each pretty particular launch or sales funnel or customer journey.

Jessi & Marie:
So...

Marie:
Sorry, we had simultaneously jumped in there...

Jessi:
Go ahead.

Marie:
Hi, Marie here to butt in.

Jessi:
So I wanted to start of really just reflecting, which I think you can piggyback off nicely Marie.

Marie:
Yeah. Not interrupting...

Jessi:
So one of the things I think is really interesting about our own journey is that for our business, for North Star, we actually avoided conversion copy for a long time. We were a little scared of it. We spent a lot of our early years focusing on nurture copy, which we talked about in the last episode and avoiding conversion copy because it intimidated us despite the fact that we needed to create it for our own business. But what I think is really interesting about that is the jobs that both Marie and I held while we were building the early phases of the business before we went full time with it were essentially conversion copy jobs in different fields. Marie was a grant writer and I was a marketing and sales writer, but they were doing conversion copy. And so we were afraid of this thing that we were already doing, which is, I think kind of something that probably most of you can relate to, because if you are running a writing business, you have to be writing conversion copy for your business, even if you're only writing nurture copy for your clients.

Marie:
Yes. You know, another... It's an interesting trend I think that writers, some writers will specialize they'll specialize just on the nurture side like we did. Or they'll specialize just in the conversion side. Like I was talking with a fellow business owner recently who was trying to hire a writer and they were like, everyone I'm to talking to just as conversion copy. And none of them also just like do my blog posts. And they were like, hell, how do we, I want just like one person who does both these things, and I'm not gonna tell you how to run your business at all, because I think it's totally fine a niche it's totally fine to specialize and stay in your zone of genius and what makes you happy. I do think that it's important to have a good grasp of what conversion copy is about even if you never write it for your clients, because like Jesse said, you'll need to do something for yourself cuz you gotta make sales. And also you just need to know how the content you you're creating dovetails into that because it's one big holistic content plan and both- it's really two sides of the same coin. You cannot unmarry them from each other fully. So even if you're specializing in, not this, I would encourage you to just, you know, try, keep listening to, or rambling to voices for a few more minutes here.

Jessi:
Yeah. Well, cause as both of us have kind of said in different ways, you're going to have to do this regardless for your own business and nurture content. I think I mentioned in the last episode really is a type of conversion content or at least it leads to conversion content. Now, when we talk about conversion copy, sales copy, all of that sort of stuff. We're talking about content that is created specifically for the purpose of making a sale. And this is something you need to do in your own business because you need clients. This is something your clients need to do in their businesses because they need customers and clients. And so it's really, really important to have a solid grasp on it. Whether you are saying, Hey, this is my new service by it now, or you are saying, Hey, my new service is coming up, providing some nurture content that leads them into some quick wins that will eventually get them to your service. All of it is part of the same process and every business, whether it's service based, whether it's product based, whether you have a long sales cycle or short sales cycle, it all needs conversion copy.

Marie:
Yes. And you know, if you're somebody who's a little uncomfortable with sales, I will remind you that, you know, people will say like, well, it's not like we're running a nonprofit, you gotta make sales. Yes. And nonprofits also do sales.

Jessi:
Yeah.

Marie:
Like they may sell sponsorships. Or, I mean really like what Jessi alluded to with me being a grant writer, like as a grant writer, my job was to convince a donor, whether that was like a foundation or a corporation or just a family, an individual to make a gift to the organization in return for basically nothing, satisfaction, maybe some their name on a building or something. But like, you know, they're not receiving a good, that's literally what makes them donation. And so yeah, everyone's doing this. You, you need to have some inflow of funds in a order to be sustainable, even if you're a nonprofit [Dog barking] and my dogs totally agrees.

Jessi:
Yeah. I think this is something that I also wanna reframe. This is kind of going back to the mindset conversation we had in the last episode. A lot of times, you know, okay. Some people out there are listening right now and are like, yeah, I am totally with, I am a conversion copywriter. I love sales. It's a lot of fun. And that's kind of honestly where we found ourselves after resisting it for so much early in our business, we ended up in a position where we were doing more conversion copy. And over the years we not only became comfortable with it, but came to enjoy it. And so that's where we want you, you to feel, even if you're not, nicheing down to focus just on conversion copy. We want you to feel comfortable with it and have enough of an understanding of it that you can use it to serve your own business and that you can use it to potentially guide your clients.
Because just like we talked about in the last episode, you are positioned as the writer to provide really valuable strategic advice to your client. Whether you're in an implementation mode or a strategy mode, you are seeing the ins and outs of the business in a way that a lot of other team members won't, you are in everything because content is a part of everything. And so that gives you a unique per perspective. So when it comes to an upcoming launch or a new product or something like that, especially if it's a client you've been working with for a while, you have a perspective that other team members may not have except for perhaps the business owner themselves. And even then you may be seeing things that they're not because you are the one doing the writing. So you may not want to be the strategist for your client, but you're well positioned to be, if that's something you're interested in and you absolutely are the strategist for your own business and your own conversion copy. So it's really important across the board.

Marie:
Yeah. And you know, depending on who your client is, you may also be positioned to be whether you wanna do this or not. The kinda the like mindset. [Dog barking] Okay. Hang on a second. The mindset, Mitchell, my darling, shhh. Okay. That worked weirdly don't expect it to last. To be like sort of the mindset to your leader person for your client to remind them that like, Hey, conversion, doesn't have to be gross. Conversion copy can be completely aligned with your values pretty much, no matter what those values are, we can sell in a way that that is respectful to them, and you know, that you're able to, if you really like your client, I hope you do.
I hope that you, you know, really are impressed by what they're doing and their services or their products. And so you can use that excite, like they may have like a little trouble talking themselves up, but can you be the cheerleader for them? Can you see angles that maybe they don't see? Like maybe they're really excited about their product because they're seeing it from this one angle. Right? Like, I don't know. I don't really want to think of an example right now, cause I'll just ramble, but like maybe you're recognizing there's another angle over here and because you're able to look at the data, you see that, whatever we talk about that angle, it does better. And so you can get really excited about that. Right. And because your client may be a little too close to it. And so yeah. Being able to be in it, but not of it, kind of gives you this really unique and powerful perspective.

Jessi:
Yeah. It's I think really valuable to be able to find, provide that objective feedback and objective viewpoint totally for a client who might be, as you said too close to it. So let's talk a little bit about how to approach conversion copy. This is all going to be high level, but we're gonna start really, really high level and then narrow a little bit. So similar to nurture content, best thing you can do is ask a lot of questions and pay attention to the answers. You'll hear us talk a lot about the power of active listening. And we've talked it in past episodes about finding brand voice and honing in on your client's content personality and things like that, which is hugely valuable. But that act of listening is also valuable in almost anything in your relationship with your either customers or clients or audience members, whoever it may be, the more you ask questions and the more you listen to the responses, the more data you're going to have.
And it doesn't just have to be sitting down with someone being like, Hey, I'm asking you a series of questions, let's have an interview totally viable, but it also can be looking at data from past launches, looking at impromptu emails or questions that come across you or your clients' per view. Just finding ways to collect information so that you can have a full understanding of where the audience is, of how the product or service being offered connects to the audience. What empathy points is it hitting? And what are, what is the business? What are the offers? Do you understand them intimately? Do you understand if an audience member comes to you or to your client with a problem, which of the offers available is the best possible solution for that audience member? The degree to which you need to know this may be different based on your relationship with your client.
Obviously, if it's your own business, you should have a super intimate, nuanced understanding of this. If it's one of your clients, they may say, Nope, we're only selling this particular service and we're only selling to this particular group of people and that's pretty streamlined, but you need to know that and you need to understand the why behind that order to really write compelling conversion copy.

Marie:
Yeah. And chances are, if you don't know it, there's one of two reasons and they may be overlapping. One is it, it may just be that there's a lot going on in the business and you just need to spend a little bit more time delving in and also you may see opportunities to consolidate. The other thing that may be going on is nobody knows, except for maybe like the CEO or something. Right. And so that includes the audience and the audience doesn't know well, which offers right for me. And what do you know, content can totally help solve that problem. But you have to know the answer so that you can share it with the audience. I guess that's why I'm saying, like, if you don't know, get the information, do the research, ask whatever makes sense. Obviously like do what you can on your own without just constantly being like, I have a question, I have a question. I might have a question, but if you have a question, ask your question, because that will enable you to serve them better.

Jessi:
Yeah, I think too, it's really important. This is particularly for, if you're working with a client on their conversion copy rather than your own. It's really important to set expectations and boundaries up front.

Marie:
Oh yeah. Well, always.

Jessi:
Always, always, always, always, always. But in particular, in the case of helping, let's just use a launch as an example because that's something that's come across our desk a lot recently. Let's say you have a client who's launching a product or a service and they want support with their launch copy. So it's not just about understanding what the launch is about, what is involved in it, who the audience is knowing the service inside and out that's being offered. Also knowing is this the first time the product or service has been launched or is this the 10th time? If it's the first time, it might be worth taking some time to set some expectations around, okay, we'll write this copy. We're gonna follow best practices. But at the end of the day, we're collecting data because we don't know how well it's going to perform.
And even though copy is a huge part of the outcome of a launch, it is not the only part you can create the best conversion copy in the world. And if other pieces aren't in place, it may not actually lead to a successful launch. So making sure that those expectations are set, that you need to do your job, which is to create the conversion copy, but your client needs to do their job too, which is deliver on the sales vehicle, making sure that they're following up with leads, you know, all of the things that are in their lane, they need to do and all the things in your lane you need to do. And just making sure that that's super clear up front, as well as whether it's a collecting data, launch, a refining launch, a we're scaling something, launch all of them sort of have a different approach and a different way of thinking about how you're defining success.

Marie:
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I think another thing to really be intimately familiar with, with your client and this may require some kind of vulnerable conversations with them, is really just finding out like, what kind of business do they want to run? Like do they, do they want to, I mean, you don't have to know the why necessarily. Although if you do know the why that can help motivate you and them, right. But like, do they always wanna be launching? Would they rather have like evergreen offers, would they like to do, do they need to really do a big push around the holidays? Which holidays? You know, and the reason I say this, because, you know, that's the kind of thing that maybe their business coach needs to know. Why do you use the copywriter needs to know it well, because you can help them work towards that with content.
Like if you know that they really, really want to have evergreen funnels, why would you be creating for them? Something that requires them to forever be involved within the sales process within launching, right? Like maybe we do that for the first few times to test it, to test the offer. And that's why we're setting the expectation like Jessi was talking about. But we ultimately wanna get them to place where the business actually suits their needs, and content is what drives that so much of it. You know, people just don't know what's out there unless we tell them, and that's what content's for.

Jessi:
Yeah, absolutely. I think it's really important to use this as a tool to evaluate the relationship that you have with your clients and the expectations of the relationship. Especially if you're with the client for multiple conversion copy events. I don't wanna say launches because it's not always a launch, but conversion copy events, because then you get more data. The more you go and the relationship itself may change, which leads to the next point, which I'm gonna nerd out a little bit on. So the next point is to, you know, kind of just pick a single strategy and stick to it so that you do get data, especially if it's the first time you've to your client or your own business with this particular type of launch. I'll use an example from our own business. We're getting ready to run a free workshop around branding your voice to CEOs and business owners who wanna learn how to do that so that they can help you as a writer sink into their voice more quickly.
We've done this workshop in certain small capacities before, but we've never done it in a large scale format. So this is the first time we're doing it. We don't really have an attachment to any specific goals. We just know that we're going to run it once in a couple of weeks, and we're gonna look at the data and then we're gonna plan on running it again a few months later, using data as a jumping off point for how we wanna tweak and adjust things. So that's sort of our game plan moving forward. And we know because it's the first time we've run this particular training in this particular way, we can have kind of guides and hopes and expectations for how it's gonna go, but we don't have the data to truly know, which leads to my nerding out moment, which is that no matter what strategy you choose, no matter how you decide to focus the details of the sales copy, they are going to follow specific beats all the time.
And so I wanna talk about this in terms of fixed and writing for a section for a second, because I like to think about it in this way. Just because it makes a lot of sense to me has someone who's a copywriter, but also a creative writer. So most of us are familiar with how a story flows and different stories have different types of flows or different beats. If you're reading a romance novel, for example, there's always going to be a moment called the meat cue, which is when the love interests first, meet each other. And there's always going to be a happily ever after at the end, those are two beats that exist in romance novels. Anyone that you pick up, it will have a variation of those two moments. And then there are a bunch of beats in between. Marie actually is currently working on, on a heist novel that has very specific beats that it has to hit in order to actually be categorized as a heist novel. If you don't hit those beats, then it becomes something else or it at least kind of loses its train of, you know, momentum you wanna hit those beats.
Conversion copy is the same. Even if the details look different, even if the product and the service looks different, you still have beats that are hit within a sales copy strategy. And broadly speaking, there are five different beats that a sales cycle is going to hit starting with the trigger point, which is what turns them into a viable lead. So this might be we're running a free training and someone signs up for it. That is them saying, Hey, you are offering a potential solution to a problem that I have and I want to know more. That is them kind of raising their hand and saying, I'm interested in this, tell me more. And, and that's gonna be the first beat.

Marie:
And there's something that triggers the trigger, right? Like, so, if, for instance, you're selling pots for potted plants, like maybe the trigger for that is somebody just moved across the country and they couldn't bring their plants with them, or maybe they moved to a new, I don't know, whatever it is like. And so they, they wanna start a garden, right. Maybe, you know, you're selling, in our case, we sell brand voice support for CEOs. And oftentimes the trigger for that is, okay, I, as the CEO am at my wits end writing content for myself, but every time I've tried to outsource it, it fails. And I don't like the copy. So I really need to find a way to capture my voice so that a writer can actually finally forever take this off my plate. They're just like losing their hair or whatever. Right? Like they're over it.

Jessi:
Yeah. The knowing the trigger point is really knowing your empathy points of your audience and knowing whatever you're selling, which empathy points it's focused on. Because you may have multiple products and services that deal with slightly different empathy points or slightly different subsections of your audience. So really understanding that trigger point and that goes back to asking questions and making sure you're listening. Then the next beat is the sales vehicle. And the sales vehicle can be a ton of different things, depending on the type of business you run, it's gonna be different from an online business to a brick and mortar business, to a product, to a service base. Everything's gonna be a little different, but this is your webinar, your video training, a challenge that you run a coupon for signing up for something on the website for like a pro a discount on your potted plants and things like that. You could think of this as your opt-in, although this is a particular sales vehicle that is not just designed on the backend to deliver more free content. It is a sales vehicle that is designed to then turn someone into a purchaser. It is someone who is to attend a free training that at the end of the free training, there is going to be an offer. So you point and then you have a sales vehicle.

Marie:
Yeah, exactly. So then after have the sales vehicle, you need some kind of follow up process because what we don't want to happen is for someone to say like, Hey, I'm really interested. And then I, they just like abandon them, right? Like I equivalent, I equivocate, is that the word, this to like, you know, you get your map ready and you're like ready to go hiking in the woods and you like, get out there and you're like three miles from your car and you turn over the map to see like, okay, where do I go next? And that page isn't there. Like it got ripped off or something. And you're like, oh, all I can do is backtrack outta here. And that's exactly what they're going do if you don't support them with follow up.

Jessi:
Absolutely. Yeah. And then they have a decision to make. And usually during that follow up process, the client is, or potential client or potential customers doing a couple of things. They're hopefully asking questions, they're consuming the content that's created. They're considering their op they may have multiple options and they're debating. Do I go with you? Do I go with someone else? They might be having multiple conversations with people. You know, this could be something that happens via an email sequence, or it could be something that happens through a series of phone calls and things like that. If it's brick and mortar, it could be the equivalent of people going to different physical shops during this follow up process, they are going to be thinking through, yes, I purchase. No I don't and why. And so the next beat is to be ready for that decision and to know what happens next.
Obviously, if they buy yay, break out the confetti, it worked, they did thing, and they're gonna get the support that they need. And this is the time to think about, okay, is there anything additional that they need? This is where you talk about potentially an upsell. If it makes sense for the service or the product, we don't want just to include one. We wanna make sure that it actually makes sense with the product or service being offered. Similarly, if they do decide back away and say, no, it's not for me. Is there something else that you can offer them a down sell of some sort that may scratch that itch a little bit, but maybe in a slightly different way, or maybe for a slightly narrower empathy point, something that still keeps them engaged and still allows them to become a customer or a client, but in a slightly different way that's still related.

Marie:
Yeah, absolutely.

Jessi:
So this is still part of the sales process, even though this is after they've decided yes or no.

Marie:
And I do wanna just quickly touch on this objection that I've seen business owners make, as well as writers make around upsell and down cells where they're like, it feels like, you know, it's like a bait and switch. It's like ah, you want A, but like, do you want A plus a 0.5? And it's like, man, you should just have sold me that from the beginning. And I think a way to handle that is actually a very similar way to handle bonuses, which is offer them something that is complimentary but not needed. So for example, right now I am exploring putting together an in-person event in the future in. And so I've been like calling places and doing research on websites and stuff like that. And I found like a retreat center place that actually has like a sales funnel. And I was like, look at you, you know, internet markety.
But what they had was they were like, here, if you, because it's a place where you could host your yoga retreat or a place where you could host a family reunion, or you could host anything, but like, if you're on more of like the yoga retreat side of thing and you need to sell seats to that, they were offering a small offer. It was like a workbook or something basically to help sell your own event in the context of their space. So like, here's the amenities to talk about here's this and that, here's all the things that will happen. Here's how, I don't know. I didn't actually buy this thing, but like I thought that was really cool. Cause it's like, you don't necessarily need that. Maybe the person is already hosted 500 yoga retreats and they know what they're doing, but maybe it's their first time. And they could really use some guidance and support around that. And $17 feels like a small price to pay, to be able to get that support whether or not they work with you. That's a great upsell down sell that. Like they don't need it, but it's there if they want it.

Jessi:
Yeah, absolutely. And then the last beat that we wanna focus on is actually where we kind of flip the coin and slide back towards nurture content. And it's the post purchase plan. It's how do you ensure ongoing loyalty whether they purchased or not, you know, how, how do they, how do you make sure that the customer or client continues to feel validated? And like you are able potential source of support for whatever they need, whether they bought or not. And so this is where you would loop back around at that nurture content and make sure that it's continuing to provide the support. That makes sense in the context of the launch or the product or the service being sold.

Marie:
Yes. So see, previous episode, if you wanna hear us talk about that, but-

Jessi:
Just keep listening to them, listen to that one than this one, that one-

Marie:
You'll not escape. Okay. So, thank you for sharing the beats. And I love that you nerded out about that, Jessi. And I think also in the same way with, is with writing, right? Like when you're writing a story and the whole thing just feels flat and weird, do you scrap it and start over? Or do you maybe take a look at one thing like, Hmm, maybe I'm not doing a good job of showing the character's emotions or, Hmm. Maybe I really need to flesh out that character's motivation. Right? It's the same thing with conversion copy. So if the strategy that you've put together falls on its face, first of all, you need to have goals and you need to know what those goals are with your client or yourself. If it's for your own business ahead of time so that you know what you're shooting for.
But remember that these are lag metrics, we cannot force people to open up their credit or their wallets and pull out their credit card and buy something. Right. That's illegal. And we don't wanna do that as coercive.

Jessi:
It's also mean.

Marie:
Yes, like, we're all about like consent here. Right? So we, what we can control though, is something like, oh, I sent out this many emails, or I reached out to this many potential affiliates or whatever it is. Right. So know that if they're like, I wanna have a half million launch, you're like, cool, what are the lead metrics leading up to that? Right. Because that's a lag metric we can't control that.
So let's say, you know, they wanna have a half million dollar launch. They only made a hundred thousand dollars, first of all, celebrate that with them. Right. That they made the hundred thousand dollars. Cause that's something and that's pretty cool. [Dog barking] Mitchell's very into it. Mitchell, my love, my Darling, my barky buddy. But see if there's just maybe a handful of things you can tweak. So like I was saying with the novel, maybe we need to define that character's motivation. Okay. Well in conversion copy, maybe it's these emails. I now look at the data. These emails did not even get opened, like horrible open rates on these. Maybe if we just changed these subject lines of those emails that would suddenly get enough people opening that our conversion rate probably would be, we just didn't have enough people opening the emails to hit our mark. Right. So see if there's one or two things that you can tweak and move forward. This is what Jessi was talking about too, about like pick a strategy, stick with it long enough to know. Right. Rather than throwing the whole thing out and starting over, cuz you don't know why it has failed.
And it's a whole, a lot more energy to completely start over than it is to tweak something that already exists and is somewhat successful because if it's making a hundred thousand dollars, like it is somewhat successful, how can we ramp that up? How can we slowly change it over time? And as the content writer, and if you wanna step into the role as the content strategist, it may be up to you to advocate for this solution.

Jessi:
Yeah. And piggybacking on that a little bit, this is also sometimes a challenging conversation to have with the client because it's easy when a launch or a conversion event doesn't go as planned to want to burn it down and just like throw it at the wall and try something completely new. And-

Marie:
I mean we've been there.

Jessi:
Yeah, totally. I think every business owner has been there at some point in time where it's like, Ugh, that didn't plan. Let's just try something completely different. And that is a decision that requires building everything back up from scratch. And so what often is better is to just look at the data and tweak one thing and then next time tweak one other thing. And the next time tweak one other thing. Because you don't know why, you don't necessarily know. There may be ways to know depending on your specific circumstances, but typically you don't know exactly why a launch did or didn't go the way that you wanted it to. And the best way to find that out is iteratively is by changing one thing at a time, starting at the top. So the very first things that they see that's sale vehicle, that trigger event tweaking that and making sure that those numbers are where you want them to be and then tweaking, you know, the emails next or however, whatever the flow is for the launch that you're working on. And your client may be resistant to that if they're the burn down type of person. And so this is where putting on your strategy hat and having a cut conversation with those numbers in mind, with that data in mind and with your skills as a content creator in mind is sometimes difficult, but also one of the values that you provide as a content creator.

Marie:
Yeah. And I would suggest that you actually have a conversation with them from the get go. Maybe even before you will work together to set expectations and say, Hey, this is gonna be an iterative process. If you wanna work together to get this thing really tight and running well. And it is probably going to require some testing that may require some additional ad spend that you're just gonna have to assume is flush down the toilet until we can make this thing truly profitable and on the road or whatever it is. So just like the more you can set their expectations from the beginning and they're comfortable with that and you have the conversation with them, the less you're gonna feel really uncomfortable later on saying like, okay, I'm gonna just suggest that maybe you record this as a video instead of a whatever, you know, like that's gonna get kind of, they're gonna be like, well, I just, I hate this, this didn't work well, I hate you and I'm gonna fire you. Like, that's not a good, that's not what we want to happen. Assuming you like this client.

Jessi:
Yeah.

Marie:
So then some other stuff to take to bear in mind, if you really want the copy that you're creating to be high converting is to have a really good finger on the pulse of a few things. One, what is the perspective buyer feeling like what is making them want to make a change in the first place? So like what are their empathy points? You were kind of talking about them before, what's the trigger to the trigger, right? What is the prospective by researching? What are their options, right. What objections may they have? So first is what's triggering this, what are they considering doing? And then third, what does the decision making process look like for them? So what are their next steps? What exactly does the buyer get as far as results of buying? Like how is this actually gonna address their problem? So, you know, if you think about it in terms of like, okay, my trigger is I've run out of toothpaste, so now that's, you know, I'm ready for a change. Number two, I'm researching. Well, you know, I just had a cavity at the dentist, so maybe I should like look into some anti cavity toothpaste next time. Third I'm making a decision. Okay. There's like five different anti cavity toothpaste sitting here is CVS. Which one do I pick? Right. So you can go through that, but like on a bigger scale with, as it scales, however, you know, to what you're writing, copy around, just know those things that's gonna already set you ahead.

Jessi:
Yeah. And the last thing that I think is important to keep in mind is when you're thinking about all of these faces from an actual fingers on keyboard writing perspective, it's important to think about it in terms of what do they need, how is that need being filled and why are you or your client, the person to do it? So this is thinking about things like features, benefits, and overcoming objections. So, you know, what do they need? How are you providing a response to that need? This is, you know, what does the program actually offer and how does it fulfill those, fixing those empathy points or at least helping with those empathy points. And then why is this the product or service or person to provide that support? Keeping those questions in mind as you're doing the actual writing, regardless of the phase you're at, regardless of what beat you're at will help keep you focused on making sure that the conversion copy is designed in a way that really does build a bridge between the audience and their needs and the person selling, whether it's you for your business or your clients and what they're off so that you can kind of meet in the middle and know that everyone is getting what they need out of this relationship.

Marie:
Absolutely. Okay. So it's a lot to think about, again, high level, not so much specifics, but that's because there is no one size fits all strategy for writing powerful conversion copy. It's gonna depend so much on the type of business on the brand voice on what they're selling. But these are high level considerations to keep in mind, as you may decide to step into being more of a strategist than just sort of a hired gun or as you're thinking and, or I guess I should say you're thinking about your own business and what the conversion copy looks like there.
So my homework for you, Jessi may have something else, but, is to go ahead and map out the beats of whatever you're thinking about right now in terms of conversion copy. So if you're playing with maybe putting a new offer out there yourself, or you're in the midst of writing some launch copy for a client, whatever it is, map out those beats. We don't have an awesome acronym this time. It's just [inaudible], but I think you'll you'll know because it's quite logical. When you think about it this way, this is applying a framework to something you probably already know, inherently. So what's the trigger point? What's the sales vehicle, what's the follow up process? What are the upsell or down sell options and what is the first post purchase play? If you can map those five things out, share it with your clients, make sure that you're on the same page as each other. You're gonna have a great roadmap as you go into that conversion copy.

Jessi:
Absolutely. And I'd like to also invite all of you once you do that exercise to hop into the Polaris writer lounge and share it with the writers who are working on their own businesses, working on their own conversion copy for their businesses and get feedback on it so that you can continue to refine and iterate and improve.

Marie:
Absolutely. Thanks so much for listening.
Thanks for joining us for this episode of the Brand Your Voice Podcast. Make sure to visit our website, northstarmessaging.com, where you can subscribe to the show on iTunes, Spotify, and more.

Jessi:
If you found value in this episode, we'd love for you to leave us a review on iTunes and share it with your friends. Thank you, and happy content creating.